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Post by tremembe on Aug 7, 2017 12:33:56 GMT -5
 There must be gaps in my knowledge: according to official reports and the courtroom prosecution evidence, there were three knives involved: * Susan Atkins had one * Patricia Krenwinkle had one * Linda Kasabian outside had the third. * This should leave Tex Watson with just the revolver and rope. So my questions are: 1 - who actually stabbed Jay Sebring? And at what point-in-time during the murders? 2 - which knife did Tex Watson use to stab Abigail Folger and then stab Voytek Frykowski ( who had already been a) stabbed in the eg by Atkins and b) shot twice and hit with the revolver by Watson) 3 - If Krenwinke used her own knife to stab Folger and Atkins lost her knife (ending up in the armchair) and then rushed out to ask Kasabian for hers......what knife is Watson using? I count four knives if Watson carring a revolver, rope and knife from the outset?  |
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Post by prudence on Aug 7, 2017 13:38:18 GMT -5
There must be gaps in my knowledge: according to official reports and the courtroom prosecution evidence, there were three knives involved: * Susan Atkins had one * Patricia Krenwinkle had one * Linda Kasabian outside had the third. * This should leave Tex Watson with just the revolver and rope. So my questions are: 1 - who actually stabbed Jay Sebring? And at what point-in-time during the murders? 2 - which knife did Tex Watson use to stab Abigail Folger and then stab Voytek Frykowski ( who had already been a) stabbed in the eg by Atkins and b) shot twice and hit with the revolver by Watson) 3 - If Krenwinke used her own knife to stab Folger and Atkins lost her knife (ending up in the armchair) and then rushed out to ask Kasabian for hers......what knife is Watson using? I count four knives if Watson carring a revolver, rope and knife from the outset? It's been stated on this forum Watson also had the machete some believe he used to slash Abigail's face. |
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Post by tremembe on Aug 14, 2017 17:42:50 GMT -5
So, any advance on three knives or four knives...or is there any other thread/site that can explain this....Im confused!
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Post by Pixie on Aug 14, 2017 18:49:58 GMT -5
As far as Jay is concerned, the story is that Tex stabbed him OR that Pat did it too....
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Post by tremembe on Aug 14, 2017 23:44:18 GMT -5
As far as Jay is concerned, the story is that Tex stabbed him OR that Pat did it too.... At what point in the overall timeline though? After he had been shot and fell? Later, after the others were dead? |
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Post by tyler on Aug 15, 2017 7:52:43 GMT -5
As far as Jay is concerned, the story is that Tex stabbed him OR that Pat did it too.... At what point in the overall timeline though? After he had been shot and fell? Later, after the others were dead? Tex states in his book that he began stabbing Jay AFTER he shot him. Jay stood in defense of Sharon and that's when Tex shot him. Sharon "became hysterical" while Abigail stood there heroic and as Tex put it, "...the Folger woman seemed anxious to cooperate, as if somehow she could bring sanity into the madness simply by maintaining her own control." He later writes, "Sebring was breathing hard, groaning, and in the sudden silence I didn't know what else to do — I went over to him and stabbed him until I thought he was dead. The women began to scream and someone asked, “What are you going to do with us?” “You're all going to die,” I answered. Tex makes no reference to Pat stabbing Jay. |
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Post by tremembe on Aug 15, 2017 10:58:15 GMT -5
At what point in the overall timeline though? After he had been shot and fell? Later, after the others were dead? Tex states in his book that he began stabbing Jay AFTER he shot him. Jay stood in defense of Sharon and that's when Tex shot him. Sharon "became hysterical" while Abigail stood there heroic and as Tex put it, "...the Folger woman seemed anxious to cooperate, as if somehow she could bring sanity into the madness simply by maintaining her own control." He later says, "Sebring was breathing hard, groaning, and in the sudden silence I didn't know what else to do — I went over to him and stabbed him until I thought he was dead. The women began to scream and someone asked, “What are you going to do with us?” “You're all going to die,” I answered. Tex makes not reference to Pat stabbing Jay. Tex must have had a 4th knife then (assuming the other three are clear on who had what knife) |
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Post by Pixie on Aug 15, 2017 12:57:29 GMT -5
At what point in the overall timeline though? After he had been shot and fell? Later, after the others were dead? Tex states in his book that he began stabbing Jay AFTER he shot him. Jay stood in defense of Sharon and that's when Tex shot him. Sharon "became hysterical" while Abigail stood there heroic and as Tex put it, "...the Folger woman seemed anxious to cooperate, as if somehow she could bring sanity into the madness simply by maintaining her own control." He later writes, "Sebring was breathing hard, groaning, and in the sudden silence I didn't know what else to do — I went over to him and stabbed him until I thought he was dead. The women began to scream and someone asked, “What are you going to do with us?” “You're all going to die,” I answered. Tex makes no reference to Pat stabbing Jay. Wasn't it Anthony (Jay's nephew) who said that she also stabbed him? Plus, I know I heard/read it somewhere else too.... |
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Post by rshep on Aug 15, 2017 12:59:54 GMT -5
3 knives, 1 machete. Atkin's lost hers in the chair and went out side to get Kasabian's knife with the tape on the handle.
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Post by tyler on Aug 15, 2017 13:36:12 GMT -5
Tex states in his book that he began stabbing Jay AFTER he shot him. Jay stood in defense of Sharon and that's when Tex shot him. Sharon "became hysterical" while Abigail stood there heroic and as Tex put it, "...the Folger woman seemed anxious to cooperate, as if somehow she could bring sanity into the madness simply by maintaining her own control." He later writes, "Sebring was breathing hard, groaning, and in the sudden silence I didn't know what else to do — I went over to him and stabbed him until I thought he was dead. The women began to scream and someone asked, “What are you going to do with us?” “You're all going to die,” I answered. Tex makes no reference to Pat stabbing Jay. Wasn't it Anthony (Jay's nephew) who said that she also stabbed him? Plus, I know I heard/read it somewhere else too.... Correct; it was Anthony who mentioned that both Pat and Tex stabbed him. I heard him mention that for the first time during the latest Manson story a week or two back. |
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Post by rshep on Aug 15, 2017 16:31:08 GMT -5
Didn't Anthony say the Jay fought back? I always thought he did, because of the coffee table over turned and everything in disarray. I wonder why Manson's minions never mentioned it or did they?
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Post by Pixie on Aug 15, 2017 17:14:09 GMT -5
Didn't Anthony say the Jay fought back? I always thought he did, because of the coffee table over turned and everything in disarray. I wonder why Manson's minions never mentioned it or did they? I'm sure Tex wouldn't want to admit that Jay might've had the upper hand for a while?? Possible!! There was clearly a fight. They claim that Jay was shot, fell to the floor and was stabbed. Sooooooo....how did his face get to be such a mess? |
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Post by Mrs_Toni on Aug 15, 2017 21:38:02 GMT -5
Didn't Anthony say the Jay fought back? I always thought he did, because of the coffee table over turned and everything in disarray. I wonder why Manson's minions never mentioned it or did they? I'm sure Tex wouldn't want to admit that Jay might've had the upper hand for a while?? Possible!! There was clearly a fight. They claim that Jay was shot, fell to the floor and was stabbed. Sooooooo....how did his face get to be such a mess? Because Tex not only shot and stabbed him, and put a rope around his neck, he kicked him in the face for good measure. |
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Post by tremembe on Aug 22, 2017 22:09:22 GMT -5
The quizical thing is, from my point of view is, the length and depth of the stab-wounds on each victims´ body....
Okay, Im half-cut (where are the drunken women on this damn forum?)...I´ll ppst in detail later....
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Post by imalreadydead on Aug 23, 2017 11:45:16 GMT -5
There must be gaps in my knowledge: according to official reports and the courtroom prosecution evidence, there were three knives involved: * Susan Atkins had one * Patricia Krenwinkle had one * Linda Kasabian outside had the third. * This should leave Tex Watson with just the revolver and rope. So my questions are: 1 - who actually stabbed Jay Sebring? And at what point-in-time during the murders? 2 - which knife did Tex Watson use to stab Abigail Folger and then stab Voytek Frykowski ( who had already been a) stabbed in the eg by Atkins and b) shot twice and hit with the revolver by Watson) 3 - If Krenwinke used her own knife to stab Folger and Atkins lost her knife (ending up in the armchair) and then rushed out to ask Kasabian for hers......what knife is Watson using? I count four knives if Watson carring a revolver, rope and knife from the outset? Tex carried a "bayonet" both nights which he ended up dumping into a water reservoir and it has never been found... Also, because Steve Parent was sliced and the only person ( that we know of) to approach his car would have been Tex. Some say Jay went for Tex's gun which is when he was shot, which also led to the placement of Jay being shot in his arm pit. Others say "Jay simply made an advance towards" Tex which resulted in him being shot. Jay was then stabbed while laying on the ground, I believe I read that he was moaning/rolling on the floor and perhaps Tex knew at Jay still posed a threat which is when he ran and kicked him in the face and then started stabbing him repeatedly. |
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Post by imalreadydead on Aug 23, 2017 12:05:36 GMT -5
Didn't Anthony say the Jay fought back? I always thought he did, because of the coffee table over turned and everything in disarray. I wonder why Manson's minions never mentioned it or did they? I could be wrong, but I don't think Jay had any defensive stab wounds on him. Also, did he only have one size of puncture wound on him? If so then this would give more credence to the fact that he was shot quickly and took the full brunt of his stabbing while he was already suffering from his gun shot wound while on the ground. As for the table flipping over, that was in closer proximity to the couch than to the fireplace and where Jay was located. Perhaps WF stumbled into it as he was getting off the couch and had Sadie riding on his back stabbing him. |
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Post by maudes harold on Aug 23, 2017 19:34:44 GMT -5
Okay, Im half-cut (where are the drunken women on this damn forum?)...I´ll ppst in detail later.... Which half? |
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Post by Sib on Aug 28, 2017 21:08:00 GMT -5
As far as Jay is concerned, the story is that Tex stabbed him OR that Pat did it too.... ....don't remember any reference to Pat doing anything to Jay....did I miss something? |
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Post by Pixie on Aug 29, 2017 16:53:39 GMT -5
As far as Jay is concerned, the story is that Tex stabbed him OR that Pat did it too.... ....don't remember any reference to Pat doing anything to Jay....did I miss something? In the recent "Dateline" TV show, Jay's nephew said that she stabbed him too. |
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Post by Sib on Sept 1, 2017 20:47:31 GMT -5
Where did he get that from?
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