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Post by tremembe on Oct 31, 2017 22:02:36 GMT -5
Oh I completely agree. ´Tex Watson? Never heard of him!´I dont think my Mum or Dad would remember the names of the murderers if I asked them now....it´d just be: ´Oh yeah, Charles Mnson....Sharon Tate, Roman Polanski, Hollywood, The Beatles and Helter Skelter´ and thats about it. Yet, techincally these should be titled ´The Tex Watson Murders´ But yes, that aspect of Manson ´killing the 60s´ or at least changing the way things were, definately had a knock-on effect as to how things were going to be from that moment on.... Reading Dianne's book, reminded me of how 'un-exposed' people were back then to the gore and charlatans we are now accustomed to. Very few CSI, Law&Order:SVU and all the trauma programming of today. People were more 'naive' on the whole I think. And that's why Charlie resonates with people. He wasn't the first by any means, just one that came at a time, in an area and with a co-occurring cultural shift that left a major impression. Plus it had all of the Hollywood sick glitter- sex, drugs & rock n' roll. Oh and death. Yes, which leads me back to: murdersofaugust69.freeforums.net/thread/1304/tate-manson-murders-decades |
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Post by starviego on Oct 31, 2017 22:59:30 GMT -5
A high death toll may actually work against sympathy and remembrance. To paraphrase Stalin: "The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic."
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Post by maudes harold on Oct 31, 2017 23:11:56 GMT -5
Comparisons of murder seem .....I can't find the word atm. But in terms of just body count--276 children (Jonestown) who had no say in their deaths seems to outweigh the 9 TLB ones. (See Julie Ann Runnel for an example) I´l see your 276 dead kids out of total of 909 at Jonestown and raise you: 2,996 on 9/11/2001 See where we´re going here? Which brings me back to my original post you've quoted. I found the word I was looking for: unseemly. I'll leave it at that. |
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Post by imalreadydead on Nov 1, 2017 10:43:32 GMT -5
The Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez Son of Sam, David Berkowitz BTK, Dennis Rader All, were very ritualistic and killed multiple people... Come on, man - not even in the same ballpark.... These murders were all very "witchy" and ritualistic.... |
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Post by tremembe on Nov 8, 2017 17:33:53 GMT -5
I´l see your 276 dead kids out of total of 909 at Jonestown and raise you: 2,996 on 9/11/2001 See where we´re going here? Which brings me back to my original post you've quoted. I found the word I was looking for: unseemly. I'll leave it at that. Hmmmm....it looks like it´s going to snow. Is this why the Truth TLB Forum went tits-up?  |
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Post by maudes harold on Nov 8, 2017 19:15:00 GMT -5
Which brings me back to my original post you've quoted. I found the word I was looking for: unseemly. I'll leave it at that. Hmmmm....it looks like it´s going to snow. Is this why the Truth TLB Forum went tits-up? I heard it was because of Global Cooling. |
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Post by valleygirl on Nov 13, 2017 11:33:29 GMT -5
Using a knife to stab and slash someone to death is a very 'up close and personal' way to kill someone. It's also very messy. The victims were not only stabbed, but stabbed multiple times - butchered- as the press like to say. Add in a pregnant woman as one of the victims and well, it's hard to get any worse. That's what Manson wanted after all right? For it to make a huge impact.
All the elements of this case have made it unique and irresistible to media which is why it's still here, not far from the public conciousness when discussing crimes of this nature. The 1960's, The Beatles, Hollywood Celebrities, Drugs, Sex, a weird commune largely female led by a monster who brainwashed others to kill for him...it's very hard to go past.
The fact that the killers are still behind bars after 50 years and will never be released - despite being recommended for parole in one instance - says a lot.
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Post by sage0409 on Nov 15, 2017 23:00:59 GMT -5
Sylvia Likens was just as bad as it gets, for me anyway. There's just to many. That one will haunt me till the day I die |
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Post by vickie on Nov 21, 2017 14:50:32 GMT -5
Using a knife to stab and slash someone to death is a very 'up close and personal' way to kill someone. It's also very messy. The victims were not only stabbed, but stabbed multiple times - butchered- as the press like to say. Add in a pregnant woman as one of the victims and well, it's hard to get any worse. That's what Manson wanted after all right? For it to make a huge impact. All the elements of this case have made it unique and irresistible to media which is why it's still here, not far from the public conciousness when discussing crimes of this nature. The 1960's, The Beatles, Hollywood Celebrities, Drugs, Sex, a weird commune largely female led by a monster who brainwashed others to kill for him...it's very hard to go past. The fact that the killers are still behind bars after 50 years and will never be released - despite being recommended for parole in one instance - says a lot. The original point I attempted to make was the visual of Manson's face as the face of evil. While there are many others that will remain infamous they have faded largely as the ultimate face. if we polled people of the age to recall all the murders mentioned. I think perhaps this would be ranked very high on the results as the name synonymous with evil /murders. |
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Post by Mrs_Toni on Nov 21, 2017 15:12:43 GMT -5
Using a knife to stab and slash someone to death is a very 'up close and personal' way to kill someone. It's also very messy. The victims were not only stabbed, but stabbed multiple times - butchered- as the press like to say. Add in a pregnant woman as one of the victims and well, it's hard to get any worse. That's what Manson wanted after all right? For it to make a huge impact. All the elements of this case have made it unique and irresistible to media which is why it's still here, not far from the public conciousness when discussing crimes of this nature. The 1960's, The Beatles, Hollywood Celebrities, Drugs, Sex, a weird commune largely female led by a monster who brainwashed others to kill for him...it's very hard to go past. The fact that the killers are still behind bars after 50 years and will never be released - despite being recommended for parole in one instance - says a lot. The original point I attempted to make was the visual of Manson's face as the face of evil. While there are many others that will remain infamous they have faded largely as the ultimate face. if we polled people of the age to recall all the murders mentioned. I think perhaps this would be ranked very high on the results as the name synonymous with evil /murders. His face on Life magazine with his cold dark eyes, plus the girls all laughing and singing as they paraded down the hall during court sealed him into infamy. |
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Post by map001 on Nov 22, 2017 15:50:12 GMT -5
I believe that there have been many murders that were just as brutal in the past 48 years, but they may have lacked the uniqueness of the TLB murders, this were not as sensationalized. Jonestown was just as brutal in terms of the death toll as well as the body count; the Menendez murders were absolutely brutal in using a shotgun to kill the parents, and I could go on, but I believe my point is made. In re Hollywood, it is, and always has been, a snake pit. However, they have the best marketing machine in the world to convince us that it is kind, and gentle, and glamorous. Just don’t run into Harvey Weinstein or Roman Polanski... Jonestown and Menedez dont even scratch the surface when compared to The Manson Murders....name me some others that even come close JFK is still a big deal. |
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Post by Mrs_Toni on Nov 22, 2017 18:43:24 GMT -5
Jonestown and Menedez dont even scratch the surface when compared to The Manson Murders....name me some others that even come close JFK is still a big deal. We went to Dealy Plaza last summer. Love or hate Oliver Stone, but the movie JFK was worth watching. |
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Post by paladin on Nov 22, 2017 23:03:39 GMT -5
In two years, it will be the 50th year since thee Tate-Manson Murders (I hate to use the word ´anniversary´), and you can be sure a lot of media coverage will be bought upon this case again: books, news-reports, magazine articles and interviews, TV documentaries and a major motion picture. Since August 1969, there is not been a murder like it - does anyone think it could happen (or surprised that it hasn´t already) again? Or did the events of August 9-10 1969 change the landscape forever in a way that would make it impossible for a copycat murder? Well, I think part of it was the whole Manson case was a series of murders and crimes, right? From Hinman to the victims at Polanski's residence to the LaBiancas to Shorty Shea, and later the Willets. Not forgetting the disappearance of Van Houten's defense attorney Ronald Hughes, the supposed suicide of John "Zero" Haught, the death of Sandra Good's husband, the attempted murder via overdose of Barbara Hoyt, the attempted murder of Bernard "Lotsapoppa" Crowe...I know I'm leaving some other stuff out in terms of suspicious deaths. The Manson case had that combination of celebrity, cult guru weirdness, drugs, the end of the 1960s, traces of hippiedom, sex orgies and gruesome murder that has proved enduring in terms of public interest. A copycat murder? I don't think so. Mostly because the particulars of the circumstances won't present themselves again. You'll sadly see spree killings via gunfire and apparently there is no shortage of spouses knocking each other off, but I tend to doubt we'll see anything like Manson again. Mostly because there are so many avenues to get information now as opposed to 50 years ago. Also, just in gun deaths alone, this homicidal behavior has become normalized in terms of people expecting it to happen re: no longer surprising when it does. But a cult leader with a cult consisting mostly of young women? Going into people's houses, stabbing (as opposed to shooting) them to death, writing on the walls in blood? Nah. I tend to doubt it. |
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Post by prudence on Nov 23, 2017 8:49:28 GMT -5
Which brings me back to my original post you've quoted. I found the word I was looking for: unseemly. I'll leave it at that. Hmmmm....it looks like it´s going to snow. Is this why the Truth TLB Forum went tits-up? Funny, that was the only other forum I’ve joined except ours. As soon as joined it “cease to exist.” I thought somehow I had something to do with it. My husband and son had a really good laugh and told me to “just join another one!” |
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graham
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Post by graham on Nov 26, 2017 0:23:12 GMT -5
The one crime that really was kind of similar after the Manson Murders was the Wonderland Murders.
Five victims. Hollywood Hills. 1981.
The LAPD said it was worse than the Manson Murders in regards to brutality. It has a strange story and the undercurrent of fame when John Holmes was introduced as a suspect. Two movies were made about the murders...."Wonderland" and "Boogie Nights". (The former being, by far, truer to the story.)
Did they match the Manson Murders as being more infamous? Not by a long shot....but all the elements were there. The victims were drug dealers. There was truly a cast of characters: Eddie Nash, John Holmes, The Wonderland Gang...all mixed with the heady year of 1981.
I remember reading about this in the newspaper. They always linked the name of Manson with this because it was a mere 12 before....but all stories were on the 4th page.
Never compared to CM and co. though...
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Post by Mrs_Toni on Nov 26, 2017 14:26:31 GMT -5
The one crime that really was kind of similar after the Manson Murders was the Wonderland Murders. Five victims. Hollywood Hills. 1981. The LAPD said it was worse than the Manson Murders in regards to brutality. It has a strange story and the undercurrent of fame when John Holmes was introduced as a suspect. Two movies were made about the murders...."Wonderland" and "Boogie Nights". (The former being, by far, truer to the story.) Did they match the Manson Murders as being more infamous? Not by a long shot....but all the elements were there. The victims were drug dealers. There was truly a cast of characters: Eddie Nash, John Holmes, The Wonderland Gang...all mixed with the heady year of 1981. I remember reading about this in the newspaper. They always linked the name of Manson with this because it was a mere 12 before....but all stories were on the 4th page. Never compared to CM and co. though... LAPD was supposedly quoted as saying this was the second most brutal murder scene they had witnessed since TLB. Can't remember where I read that quote. And first time LE used a video camera to record the scene. The Wonderland victims all had arrest records for drugs plus John Holmes wasn't the most stellar cast member as far as keeping under the radar and quietly going into the night. [ED Note: Christine / Maude / Pixie / Shep: I just self moderated this reply that really wanted to easily write itself full of inappropriate yet funny puns and innuendos. You're welcome  ] |
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all8
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Post by all8 on Jan 1, 2019 18:33:33 GMT -5
Sylvia Likens was just as bad as it gets, for me anyway. There's just to many. That one will haunt me till the day I die Sylvia Likens stuff bothers me more than the Manson stuff, for some reason. Btw, just joined here today. I remember a lot of names from the tatelabianca site. |
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Post by virtualross on Feb 14, 2019 15:47:35 GMT -5
One that's worth considering, at least in terms of media coverage and cultural impact, is the OJ Simpson case.
Admittedly in the Simpson case the trial got more focus than the murders, and the fame was on the side of the (alleged) murderer, but the media coverage was, if anything, even greater. And, as the TLB killings are considered a touchstone for the end of the '60s, the different views on the OJ verdict between white and black Americans told us a lot about race in America. We've also had the fictionalized recreations of events, not unlike with TLB.
I still remember where I was when the OJ verdict was announced.
Ross
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