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Post by imalreadydead on Apr 5, 2017 20:27:53 GMT -5
Very good, Vickie! You're starting to learn that there is more to this case than Helter Skelter. While VF and the others may have been doing a little drug dealing, i'm not sure it was 'that big'. Even if it was, there's nothing tying their drug activities to Manson. No evidence at all. The FBI files say that 'Press reports indicate the shipment of household goods contain narcotics'. Press reports? hardly a reliable source of factual information. Obviously, the steamer trunks sent from England contained no drugs otherwise Polanski would have been arrested and charged for drug trafficking - which he wasn't. True, but couldn't we say that drugs linked all three cases together. Hinman/Tate/ LaBianca? All seem to point to MDA, potentially cocaine too. Plus we know that Tex was also dealing MDA. Not saying I believe drug burn, VG but sometimes it makes me wonder. |
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Post by valleygirl on Apr 5, 2017 20:38:49 GMT -5
While VF and the others may have been doing a little drug dealing, i'm not sure it was 'that big'. Even if it was, there's nothing tying their drug activities to Manson. No evidence at all. The FBI files say that 'Press reports indicate the shipment of household goods contain narcotics'. Press reports? hardly a reliable source of factual information. Obviously, the steamer trunks sent from England contained no drugs otherwise Polanski would have been arrested and charged for drug trafficking - which he wasn't. True, but couldn't we say that drugs linked all three cases together. Hinman/Tate/ LaBianca? All seem to point to MDA, potentially cocaine too. Plus we know that Tex was also dealing MDA. Not saying I believe drug burn, VG but sometimes it makes me wonder. Yes IAD it does make us wonder, this case by nature will always pose more questions than we have answers for. I'm not sure how drugs link them together though, and considering that half of L.A was zonked on MDA and a good chunk of the population probably making a little 'on the side' by selling...i don't see any real significance in Tex's activities. It's only my opinion, and i could be completely wrong of course. |
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Post by vickie on Apr 5, 2017 20:48:31 GMT -5
This was not the two trunks with Sharon's clothes. It was a trunk to be shipped after the murders. I agree the drug dealings did not have a connection to Manson. It just proved Polanski didn't seem to care at all about Sharon and the baby. Just the fact he left her in the care of Voytec.
Voytec had a a huge shipment of MDA coming in from eastern Canada. The guy was back with the drugs on 8/8/69. It was one of the guys that sold the $6000 of cocaine that were friends of Cass Elliott.
They found quite a lot of a variety of drugs in the house. Both Voytec and Gibby had a fair amount of the drug in their system when they were murdered.
Just pondering... Lots of things I need to check out. I re-read the police report from the investigation and that made me wonder if someone paid Charlie to do this hit. He would have been "killing two birds with one stone". He could have been paid for what he wanted to do anyway??? Perhaps, who knows??
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Post by tremembe on Apr 5, 2017 20:51:30 GMT -5
The more I read, the more my mind changes about some of the involved players. I think as I have re-read the initial investigation report that Jay, Voytec and Roman were very deep into drug trafficking. A large shipment of MDA was due in about the day of the murders. The drug shipment was coming in from Canada. The day before, Jay and Voytec made lots of trips to and from their personal residences and about town. Then I read on the FBI files released on CM, Roman shipped out a steamer trunk or trunks of drugs from Europe...The DAY AFTER the murders!! WTF? He sure was devistated about his wife and child being murdered! Apparently the FBI had been watching them for a while. I guess Voytec and Gibby were dealing drugs the entire time that lived at Cielo. The more I read and read about drugs and this situaton, the more I think: you reap what you sow. Which basically means, Sharon Tate and Steve Parent were collateral damage in all of this. As for Sebring, Fryskowki and Folger? Well, I[m sorry but ....´If you play with feathers, you get your ass tickled´ |
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Post by valleygirl on Apr 5, 2017 20:52:58 GMT -5
This was not the two trunks with Sharon's clothes. It was a trunk to be shipped after the murders. I agree the drug dealings did not have a connection to Manson. It just proved Polanski didn't seem to care at all about Sharon and the baby. Just the fact he left her in the care of Voytec. Voytec had a a huge shipment of MDA coming in from eastern Canada. The guy was back with the drugs on 8/8/69. It was one of the guys that sold the $6000 of cocaine that were friends of Cass Elliott. They found quite a lot of a variety of drugs in the house. Both Voytec and Gibby had a fair amount of the drug in their system when they were murdered. Just pondering... Lots of things I need to check out. I re-read the police report from the investigation and that made me wonder if someone paid Charlie to do this hit. He would have been "killing two birds with one stone". He could have been paid for what he wanted to do anyway??? Perhaps, who knows?? Sorry to confuse things Vicki, i'm not referring to the blue trunks sent containing Sharon's clothes, but the ones referred to in the FBI report. They only contained household goods. |
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Post by tremembe on Apr 5, 2017 21:02:47 GMT -5
This was not the two trunks with Sharon's clothes. It was a trunk to be shipped after the murders. I agree the drug dealings did not have a connection to Manson. It just proved Polanski didn't seem to care at all about Sharon and the baby. Just the fact he left her in the care of Voytec. And the more I read and hear and see this....it really gets me thinking. And they´re usually bad thoughts. |
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Post by vickie on Apr 5, 2017 21:04:27 GMT -5
I read that Roman had been sending drugs on a regular basis for Voytec. (To resell?) Voytec lived off Gibby and drug sales, I believe. The FBI had an extensive file regarding their activities, maybe they were waiting for the right time to make their move. The CIA was likely very involved as well. We are dealing with the rich and famous.
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Post by tremembe on Apr 5, 2017 21:16:47 GMT -5
I read that Roman had been sending drugs on a regular basis for Voytec. (To resell?) Voytec lived off Gibby and drug sales, I believe. The FBI had an extensive file regarding their activities, maybe they were waiting for the right time to make their move. The CIA was likely very involved as well. We are dealing with the rich and famous. Its true though right, Vick? Polanski: nasty little piece of work before we even get started ( like all short men tend to be anyway)...conveniently not at the house when all the shit went down (and how many days do you think he was away from his wife up til then? Not many I bet)...the flight back home and supposed incident at Elaine´s in NYC with the Swedish bird...then the casual wandering around the still blood-soaked house a week later with LIFE magazine in tow with their chequebook out.....and a month later, living it up in Gstaad ski-ing with his Euro-chums.
And he has hasnt even raped a 13-year old girl yet.
SHADY FUCKER. |
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Post by Mrs_Toni on Apr 5, 2017 21:19:37 GMT -5
True, but couldn't we say that drugs linked all three cases together. Hinman/Tate/ LaBianca? All seem to point to MDA, potentially cocaine too. Plus we know that Tex was also dealing MDA. Not saying I believe drug burn, VG but sometimes it makes me wonder. Yes IAD it does make us wonder, this case by nature will always pose more questions than we have answers for. I'm not sure how drugs link them together though, and considering that half of L.A was zonked on MDA and a good chunk of the population probably making a little 'on the side' by selling...i don't see any real significance in Tex's activities. It's only my opinion, and i could be completely wrong of course. I haven't read the FBI reports. How did they know about a 3rd trunk if it wasn't sent? Or was it sent? Surely Tex et al would have stolen it if it was there. OR if Charlie went back and HE took it later that night, after the idiot murderers took off in a panic. Now THAT would be a good reason for Charlie to go to the scene. |
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Post by Mrs_Toni on Apr 5, 2017 21:21:51 GMT -5
I read that Roman had been sending drugs on a regular basis for Voytec. (To resell?) Voytec lived off Gibby and drug sales, I believe. The FBI had an extensive file regarding their activities, maybe they were waiting for the right time to make their move. The CIA was likely very involved as well. We are dealing with the rich and famous. Its true though right, Vick? Polanski: nasty little piece of work before we even get started ( like all short men tend to be anyway)...conveniently not at the house when all the shit went down (and how many days do you think he was away from his wife up til then? Not many I bet)...the flight back home and supposed incident at Elaine´s in NYC with the Swedish bird...then the casual wandering around the still blood-soaked house a week later with LIFE magazine in tow with their chequebook out.....and a month later, living it up in Gstaad ski-ing with his Euro-chums.
And he has hasnt even raped a 13-year old girl yet.
SHADY FUCKER.Who sends their extremely pregnant wife back home alone? Nothing that couldn't have been handled from LA. Two weeks before giving birth, that is so totally wrong. That's not a man. That's a troll still looking for quick side pieces. Work obligations. Right. |
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Post by tremembe on Apr 5, 2017 21:25:40 GMT -5
Its true though right, Vick? Polanski: nasty little piece of work before we even get started ( like all short men tend to be anyway)...conveniently not at the house when all the shit went down (and how many days do you think he was away from his wife up til then? Not many I bet)...the flight back home and supposed incident at Elaine´s in NYC with the Swedish bird...then the casual wandering around the still blood-soaked house a week later with LIFE magazine in tow with their chequebook out.....and a month later, living it up in Gstaad ski-ing with his Euro-chums.
And he has hasnt even raped a 13-year old girl yet.
SHADY FUCKER.Who sends their extremely pregnant wife back home alone? Nothing that couldn't have been handled from LA. Two weeks before giving birth, that is so totally wrong. That's not a man. That's a troll still looking for quick side pieces. Work obligations. Right. To work on some lame movie script called..lol... ´Day Of The Fuckin Dolphin´  Really? Not right. |
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Post by imalreadydead on Apr 5, 2017 22:01:52 GMT -5
True, but couldn't we say that drugs linked all three cases together. Hinman/Tate/ LaBianca? All seem to point to MDA, potentially cocaine too. Plus we know that Tex was also dealing MDA. Not saying I believe drug burn, VG but sometimes it makes me wonder. Yes IAD it does make us wonder, this case by nature will always pose more questions than we have answers for. I'm not sure how drugs link them together though, and considering that half of L.A was zonked on MDA and a good chunk of the population probably making a little 'on the side' by selling...i don't see any real significance in Tex's activities. It's only my opinion, and i could be completely wrong of course. Good point! I think I read that Tex dated and sold to the LaBiancas daughter. They lived nearby each other. I'll have to look it up. It might be in the tin foil thread though.  |
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Post by imalreadydead on Apr 5, 2017 22:03:53 GMT -5
Who sends their extremely pregnant wife back home alone? Nothing that couldn't have been handled from LA. Two weeks before giving birth, that is so totally wrong. That's not a man. That's a troll still looking for quick side pieces. Work obligations. Right. To work on some lame movie script called..lol... ´Day Of The Fuckin Dolphin´ Really? Not right. And he was sleeping with airline stewardesses and other women while he was away. |
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Post by tremembe on Apr 5, 2017 22:22:58 GMT -5
To work on some lame movie script called..lol... ´Day Of The Fuckin Dolphin´ Really? Not right. And he was sleeping with airline stewardesses and other women while he was away. Now now....dont push it. There´s nothing wrong with tapping trolley-dollies. |
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Post by vickie on Apr 6, 2017 7:58:57 GMT -5
I read that Roman had been sending drugs on a regular basis for Voytec. (To resell?) Voytec lived off Gibby and drug sales, I believe. The FBI had an extensive file regarding their activities, maybe they were waiting for the right time to make their move. The CIA was likely very involved as well. We are dealing with the rich and famous. Its true though right, Vick? Polanski: nasty little piece of work before we even get started ( like all short men tend to be anyway)...conveniently not at the house when all the shit went down (and how many days do you think he was away from his wife up til then? Not many I bet)...the flight back home and supposed incident at Elaine´s in NYC with the Swedish bird...then the casual wandering around the still blood-soaked house a week later with LIFE magazine in tow with their chequebook out.....and a month later, living it up in Gstaad ski-ing with his Euro-chums.
And he has hasnt even raped a 13-year old girl yet.
SHADY FUCKER. |
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Post by vickie on Apr 6, 2017 8:19:12 GMT -5
Yes IAD it does make us wonder, this case by nature will always pose more questions than we have answers for. I'm not sure how drugs link them together though, and considering that half of L.A was zonked on MDA and a good chunk of the population probably making a little 'on the side' by selling...i don't see any real significance in Tex's activities. It's only my opinion, and i could be completely wrong of course. I haven't read the FBI reports. How did they know about a 3rd trunk if it wasn't sent? Or was it sent? Surely Tex et al would have stolen it if it was there. OR if Charlie went back and HE took it later that night, after the idiot murderers took off in a panic. Now THAT would be a good reason for Charlie to go to the scene. |
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Post by vickie on Apr 6, 2017 8:23:54 GMT -5
I am not sure where the trunk was sent. There was an identical trunk at Spahn Ranch. I was thinking they may have traded out another trunk. The FBI report indicated Roman mailed a trunk containing narcotics from Europe the day following the murders. I wonder... I was so angry when I read that worm was only worried about that when his beautiful wife and baby were dead. How awful.
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Post by tremembe on Apr 6, 2017 8:28:53 GMT -5
I think we may be only touching the tip of the iceberg! He may have wanted to rid himself of the baby. He was the jet setter and he only wanted Sharon on his arm. He was a womanizer before and after he married Sharon. Sharon was ready to dump him after the baby was born. She stated this in the letter to her Mother. He would never put up with being second in Sharon's life. Little man syndrome? He could have paid for the hit. If it was to be two women there at the time as Katie said... Sharon and Gibby! Gibby was ready to break up with Voytec per her doctor. He may have wanted to rid his childhood friend of her too?? Lovely little worm, a child rapist. He sure did make a big deal when he went to the house. He had them darken the writing on the door so he could be filmed cleaning it. Where was he before and after his house tour?? It was party time for him. The only one he was truly upset about losing was Voytec most likely. He hated Jay, tolerated Sharon and Gibby and did not want a baby! What do you think about that little sneaky POS?? There´s certainly a lot to work with when creating such a theory! Add to that he was questioned by the poilce immediately when he landed in Los Angeles ( on or around August 11-12...I think?) But anyway, why hasn´t any more of this surfaced since? Howcome Charles Manson is willing to take the rap for it. If he is willing to let members of his family spend ther life in prison, why not a potential payer? Plus, it doesnt explain the LaBianca murders the following night, or the Hinman murder, Shorty, etc There was too much going on in general and so many other questions to make me think Polanski had anything to do with it. One thing that always made me question Polanki regarding his reaction (along with the other reactions I listed above - which people can easily explain with a ´everyone has their own way of dealing with tragedy´) to this murder case: his total lack of reference to his own unborn baby - I´ve not heard or read anything about him mentioning that. |
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Post by prudence on Apr 6, 2017 8:38:07 GMT -5
I think we may be only touching the tip of the iceberg! He may have wanted to rid himself of the baby. He was the jet setter and he only wanted Sharon on his arm. He was a womanizer before and after he married Sharon. Sharon was ready to dump him after the baby was born. She stated this in the letter to her Mother. He would never put up with being second in Sharon's life. Little man syndrome? He could have paid for the hit. If it was to be two women there at the time as Katie said... Sharon and Gibby! Gibby was ready to break up with Voytec per her doctor. He may have wanted to rid his childhood friend of her too?? Lovely little worm, a child rapist. He sure did make a big deal when he went to the house. He had them darken the writing on the door so he could be filmed cleaning it. Where was he before and after his house tour?? It was party time for him. The only one he was truly upset about losing was Voytec most likely. He hated Jay, tolerated Sharon and Gibby and did not want a baby! What do you think about that little sneaky POS?? There´s certainly a lot to work with when creating such a theory! Add to that he was questioned by the poilce immediately when he landed in Los Angeles ( on or around August 11-12...I think?) But anyway, why hasn´t any more of this surfaced since? Howcome Charles Manson is willing to take the rap for it. If he is willing to let members of his family spend ther life in prison, why not a potential payer? Plus, it doesnt explain the LaBianca murders the following night, or the Hinman murder, Shorty, etc There was too much going on in general and so many other questions to make me think Polanski had anything to do with it. One thing that always made me question Polanki regarding his reaction (along with the other reactions I listed above - which people can easily explain with a ´everyone has their own way of dealing with tragedy´) to this murder case: his total lack of reference to his own unborn baby - I´ve not heard or read anything about him mentioning that. I do not believe Polanski wanted the baby Sharon was about to deliver and I also don't believe he felt ANY sorrow over the loss of their son. Tremembe, do you remember where you saw or heard about the letters Sharon wrote to her mother? I had referenced the same info on this forum but I haven't been able to figure out where that info came from. But Sharon did tell her mother if Polanski didn't step up to the plate as a father she would leave him. |
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Post by vickie on Apr 6, 2017 8:41:48 GMT -5
Great questions, I think Hinman was personal for Charlie. I think we could have HS as a partial motive for LaBianca murders?? There was a connection between Tex and Rosemary's daughter. She later showed up at his parole hearings and she was a known drug user. There was a drug connection there too! I read the daughter wanted her mom's millions! Motive?? Hire a hit??
I think Charlie was willing to take the rap for everything. He felt at home in prison anyway.
The worm never mentioned the baby, he referred to the baby as Sharon's baby. Or it and that baby... A baby should not been an "it" to a father.
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