tremembe
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Post by tremembe on Apr 7, 2016 16:40:07 GMT -5
"...That's all they ever give me...
...Questions questions"
What are your questions that you need answerring about this case?
What still keeps you interesting in this case?
What answers do you want to hear...that you don't, deep-down, really want to hear?
What makes you uncomfortable about all of this?
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Post by Mrs_Toni on Apr 9, 2016 2:37:53 GMT -5
"...That's all they ever give me...
...Questions questions"
What are your questions that you need answerring about this case? What still keeps you interesting in this case? What answers do you want to hear...that you don't, deep-down, really want to hear? What makes you uncomfortable about all of this? Why Cielo Drive was really picked... Why La Bianca was really picked.... What really happened in detail at Cielo that night... Who was heard screaming at Cielo... Did Charlie and others go back to Cielo later that night... What is on the Tex Tapes... Did they kill the old guy in Ukiah... Who killed Zero... Did someone in the family kill the Jane Doe that was never identified to this day... Did someone in the family kill Marina Habe... Did someone in the family kill Scientologists Doreen Gaul and James Sharp... off the top of my head... |
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tremembe
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Post by tremembe on Apr 10, 2016 15:30:45 GMT -5
"...That's all they ever give me...
...Questions questions"
What are your questions that you need answerring about this case? What still keeps you interesting in this case? What answers do you want to hear...that you don't, deep-down, really want to hear? What makes you uncomfortable about all of this? Why Cielo Drive was really picked... Why La Bianca was really picked.... What really happened in detail at Cielo that night... Who was heard screaming at Cielo... Did Charlie and others go back to Cielo later that night... What is on the Tex Tapes... Did they kill the old guy in Ukiah... Who killed Zero... Did someone in the family kill the Jane Doe that was never identified to this day... Did someone in the family kill Marina Habe... Did someone in the family kill Scientologists Doreen Gaul and James Sharp... off the top of my head... Ummm...that's quite a lot!  |
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tremembe
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Post by tremembe on Apr 10, 2016 17:39:10 GMT -5
All I'd like to know:
* was it drugs?
* was it Manson's orders?
That's all you need answering really...
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Post by Mrs_Toni on Apr 10, 2016 22:19:59 GMT -5
All I'd like to know: * was it drugs? * was it Manson's orders? That's all you need answering really... I'd add "was Bruce the Zodiac killer" but they were too drug addled for him to come up with cyphers. Although, Scientology does not allow drug use so why was he in Scientology anyway? The family was all maryjane and LSD fans. |
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Post by Mrs_Toni on Apr 10, 2016 22:20:56 GMT -5
All I'd like to know: * was it drugs? * was it Manson's orders? That's all you need answering really... Was it a drug burn? Was it robbery? Was it revenge? Was it all 3? Or just a pissed off Manson with a bone to pick and it was just a case of what houses were familiar? They partied next to Waverly as that is how they met the infamous Harold True. |
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Post by cardiacarrest on Apr 27, 2016 22:37:15 GMT -5
A lot of good questions that deserve answers. My list looks like this:
-Who owned the car parked outside the gate witnessed by the paper boy Steve Shannen?
-Was there a gay angle? Did Steve Parent hook up with Billy G? Was he on the property before that night? Jerry Friedman is an enigma in this case. Is there really more to it?
-What about Mrs. Kott? What did she really hear before bedtime? Why didn't they answer the door when Winnie came screaming?
-Who was arguing close to 4AM? And whatever happened to the frightened Mexican National?
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Post by rshep on Jun 22, 2016 15:03:58 GMT -5
I'm not convinced that Steve P was killed first. Was he? Was him and William G in the sack with the music blasting and heard nothing? When Steven P was leaving, Did he see what happened and left in such a hurry that he backed into the fence. Then, Tex chased him down the driveway and shot him. That's why no one in the house was alarmed at first, Because there were no shots before the Manson Henchman arrived. I think William G was there to do more than let the dogs out. Not judging, just doesn't make sense to me.
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Post by imalreadydead on Aug 16, 2016 11:07:47 GMT -5
I'm not convinced that Steve P was killed first. Was he? Was him and William G in the sack with the music blasting and heard nothing? When Steven P was leaving, Did he see what happened and left in such a hurry that he backed into the fence. Then, Tex chased him down the driveway and shot him. That's why no one in the house was alarmed at first, Because there were no shots before the Manson Henchman arrived. I think William G was there to do more than let the dogs out. Not judging, just doesn't make sense to me. Boom! I think you hit the nail on the head here. That is one question that I don't think has ever been talked about, "how did the split rail fence break?" Obviously, due to the paint being on the underside of Parent's car we know the car hit the fence but at what point? I don't even think that HS ever mentioned that the split rail fence was busted and paint was found on Parent's car, I only read this in the Family. It is quite possible, that Parent walked out right after the murders occurred. However, one thing that was unique about the Cielo property is that there were multiple pathways that lead to and from the guest house. One said pathway went across the front of the house (towards the edge of the front law by the trees), so it could have been that as he walked down this pathway he observed the bodies on the front yard and the commotion inside the house and began to take off for his car. Upon, getting into his car he pulled out quickly in a panic and hit the fence. Plus him wrecking into the fence could have given Tex more time to cut him off. One piece of really telling evidence is that Parent reportedly stated "I won't say anything, I swear" before being shot. I think this quote came from the book, the Family. Although, I'm not sure why the killers would have changed the account of what occurred especially with this circumstance. Especially, Kasabian.... |
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anton
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Post by anton on Dec 7, 2016 14:52:32 GMT -5
Did Patricia Krenwinkel check out the guesthouse ?
My thoughts are she didn't or she would almost certainly have realized there was someone there ,you can't write letters without a light or lamp being on or listen to records without making a noise as Garretson has claimed he was doing,i think he told the truth about hearing nothing that night because of one thing -the police woke him up mid morning ,how could someone sleep after seeing and hearing all that carnage
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Post by tyler on Dec 8, 2016 12:34:45 GMT -5
Did Patricia Krenwinkel check out the guesthouse ? My thoughts are she didn't or she would almost certainly have realized there was someone there ,you can't write letters without a light or lamp being on or listen to records without making a noise as Garretson has claimed he was doing,i think he told the truth about hearing nothing that night because of one thing -the police woke him up mid morning ,how could someone sleep after seeing and hearing all that carnage That's the question I would like answered as well, anton. You also said exactly what I've said before. No way would someone hear/see all of that and then simply lay down to sleep for the night. Never. |
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Post by imalreadydead on Dec 8, 2016 13:08:58 GMT -5
Did Patricia Krenwinkel check out the guesthouse ? My thoughts are she didn't or she would almost certainly have realized there was someone there ,you can't write letters without a light or lamp being on or listen to records without making a noise as Garretson has claimed he was doing,i think he told the truth about hearing nothing that night because of one thing -the police woke him up mid morning ,how could someone sleep after seeing and hearing all that carnage That's the question I would like answered as well, anton. You also said exactly what I've said before. No way would someone hear/see all of that and then simply lay down to sleep for the night. Never. Wouldn't it of been something if William Garreston bought his drugs from Tex? |
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crashdavis
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Post by crashdavis on Dec 8, 2016 14:41:00 GMT -5
I'm not convinced that Steve P was killed first. Was he? Was him and William G in the sack with the music blasting and heard nothing? When Steven P was leaving, Did he see what happened and left in such a hurry that he backed into the fence. Then, Tex chased him down the driveway and shot him. That's why no one in the house was alarmed at first, Because there were no shots before the Manson Henchman arrived. I think William G was there to do more than let the dogs out. Not judging, just doesn't make sense to me. Great point/question ! Been driving me nuts for years. As you pointed out, how did the fence get broken ?  |
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Post by imalreadydead on Dec 9, 2016 16:24:04 GMT -5
I'm not convinced that Steve P was killed first. Was he? Was him and William G in the sack with the music blasting and heard nothing? When Steven P was leaving, Did he see what happened and left in such a hurry that he backed into the fence. Then, Tex chased him down the driveway and shot him. That's why no one in the house was alarmed at first, Because there were no shots before the Manson Henchman arrived. I think William G was there to do more than let the dogs out. Not judging, just doesn't make sense to me. Great point/question ! Been driving me nuts for years. As you pointed out, how did the fence get broken ? The curb next to the fence looks pretty high. Surprised he didn't blow out his back tires, but I would imagine that the over extended rear/truck area hit before the tired could hit the curb. Food for thought.. |
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Post by Mrs_Toni on Dec 9, 2016 20:25:30 GMT -5
Great point/question ! Been driving me nuts for years. As you pointed out, how did the fence get broken ? The curb next to the fence looks pretty high. Surprised he didn't blow out his back tires, but I would imagine that the over extended rear/truck area hit before the tired could hit the curb. Food for thought.. Well, going along the lines of Parent's car hitting the fence...1) how far was the fence from the curb and then 2) was the trunk end of the car from the back wheels long enough to hit the fence and damage it without going over the curb itself? Photos can be deceptive on distances. Was the Rambler trunk from the rear wheels long enough to do that damage? |
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Post by tyler on Dec 9, 2016 21:25:48 GMT -5
I wrote this same thing in the 'Ceilo Fence' thread and I'll post it here as well. My theory is that Steven simply backed up into the fence on his way out and instead of walking back to the guesthouse to let William know, or to walk to the main house to let one of them know, he simply chose to drive off.
Here is what I wrote in the other thread...
He was the first to die.
Do we know if Steven had been at Ceilo prior to this night? It was well after dark when he left the guesthouse so perhaps not knowing or being familiar with the layout of the drive, he backed up, ran the curb, knocked the fence, and was on his way out when he came across Tex and the girls. This would explain why Tex nor the girls said anything differently than what they said - 'A car was coming down the drive and that's when Tex stopped the car' (I don't remember the quote word for word). They didn't see Steven hit the fence. It's been years since I was at Ceilo (I really do need to look for those pictures!), but I do know the main parking was around the corner from the gate and therefore Tex nor the girls saw Steven back into the gate. They only saw him as he rounded the corner. My thought is that Steven backed into the gate and frankly didn't know what to do (go and alert William or alert the folks at the main house) so he chose to leave without telling anyone.
He didn't get far.
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Post by Mrs_Toni on Dec 10, 2016 17:37:04 GMT -5
I wrote this same thing in the 'Ceilo Fence' thread and I'll post it here as well. My theory is that Steven simply backed up into the fence on his way out and instead of walking back to the guesthouse to let William know, or to walk to the main house to let one of them know, he simply chose to drive off. Here is what I wrote in the other thread... He was the first to die. Do we know if Steven had been at Ceilo prior to this night? It was well after dark when he left the guesthouse so perhaps not knowing or being familiar with the layout of the drive, he backed up, ran the curb, knocked the fence, and was on his way out when he came across Tex and the girls. This would explain why Tex nor the girls said anything differently than what they said - 'A car was coming down the drive and that's when Tex stopped the car' (I don't remember the quote word for word). They didn't see Steven hit the fence. It's been years since I was at Ceilo (I really do need to look for those pictures!), but I do know the main parking was around the corner from the gate and therefore Tex nor the girls saw Steven back into the gate. They only saw him as he rounded the corner. My thought is that Steven backed into the gate and frankly didn't know what to do (go and alert William or alert the folks at the main house) so he chose to leave without telling anyone. He didn't get far. so...if Parent DID crash into the fence and instead of driving away, rather he went to tell Garrettson, he might have survived since Garrettson did. Or Garrettson came out to see the damage and both would have been done in. Ouch. |
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Post by tyler on Dec 11, 2016 16:04:02 GMT -5
It's very interesting to think about. Let's consider the timing had Steven decided to alert someone - William in this case. Would Steven be standing and checking out the damage when Tex and the girls rounded the bend in the drive? Who's to say Steven didn't check it out? My guess is he did and was already back in his car and driving out when he came upon Tex. Now, let's say when he checked it out he decided to alert William. Would he have been on the sidewalk near the guesthouse when Tex and the girls came around the driveway bend on the way to the house, or would he have been in the guesthouse explaining what happened to William? If they were in the guesthouse talking, where would Tex and the girls have been when William and Steven walked out to the lot to see the damage?
In my head, Steven and William would have been walking to and arriving at the car/gate at the same time the girls were checking for unlocked doors. It's possible Tex/girls had already gained entry and Susan was walking through the house and counting the number of occupants. If Tex and the girls were looking for a way in when Steven and William were walking down the sidewalk in route to the lot, then William probably would have yelled "hey!" or something to figure out what Tex and the girls were doing. If that was the case then there would have been two more bodies in the Ceilo lawn. It's possible the occupants inside the house would have heard the commotion outside and who knows what would have occurred...
If Tex and the girls were already inside when Steven and William took the walk to the lot, then Steven would have survived and on his way home and it would have been William who was murdered as he would have most likely heard the screaming from inside the house or, depending on how long it took before Voy and Abigail exited the house, he may have seen these two die and probably would have tried to help...Or perhaps hide. He was a kid after all.
The other thing to think about is; had Tex and the girls been inside when Steven and William went to the lot and after William telling him, "I'll let the occupants of the house know in the morning", would Steven had driven upon Linda as he exited? If so, what would Linda have done? Would she let him leave? We'll never know.
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Post by vickie on Mar 27, 2017 15:22:05 GMT -5
Very interesting thoughts everyone. I think it was on a report from the police, a diagram of the parking area. It indicated he felt that Steven was parked next to Gibby's car. He backed to the left hitting the fence and moving forward toward the gate when he was shot. POI to Parent's car was left rear bumper area. This would match the officer's diagram. He very well could have witnessed murders. This would explain his words about not telling anyone. Which never made sense to me. Why would he have said he would not tell if he didn't see anything? Now that would finally make sense. Now...so many more!!!
1- what was the motive? Drugs, HS, revenge?
2- what was the event sequence the night of the murders?
3- what did WG really witness?
4- was Polanki a drug dealer? What was inside the trunks that arrived that day? Was there two or three of them?
5- Sharon was not supposed to be there. She cancelled plans since she did not feel well. Was she to be a hit?
6- did Charlie go to the scene during or after the murders?
7- how did Jay's and Sharon's blood get outside the front door at the hedges?
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Post by prudence on Mar 27, 2017 17:03:42 GMT -5
Great questions!
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