When people ask, 'where did Charlie get his "Helter Skelter" ideas,' the experts cite the Book of Revelation, Scientology, the Process Church, and the Beatles "White Album." But to me an even more obvious source are the racial beliefs of the Nation of Islam(NOI) aka "Black Muslims."
".... the, primary beliefs of the Black Muslims began to be taught with greater zeal. Those beliefs were that the black man was morally and culturally superior, and was destined to rule the earth. The sect condemned Christianity as the chief stratagem of the continued enslavement of nonwhites, and preached that the white race was conceived of devils whose time to reign was coming to an end. It encouraged the reclamation of fallen blacks such as convicts, drug addicts, and so forth, through the study of their true history, through striving for economic independence, and by preparation for the Battle of Armageddon, which they believed would be the final struggle between good and evil, black and white." ---- "Zebra" author Clark Howard
"the black man was.... destined, to rule the earth"
Charlie said the blacks would emerge victorious in the race war.
"..the white race ... time to reign was coming to an end."
Charlie said the karma was turning, and that blacks would rise up.
" ...preparation for the Battle of Armageddon, which they believed would be the final struggle between... black and white."
Exactly as Charlie prophesized, while the Family hid out in those underground caverns in the desert somewhere.
Almost certainly Charlie would have come into contact with Black Muslims in his lengthy pre-1967 prison career. Was he familiar with their bizarre philosophy? The parallels between Helter Skeltor and the NOI creed are too similar to ignore.
The point is this: is it possible a good chunk of the "Helter Skelter" philosophy was lifted from the Black Muslims? That would be the ultimate irony.
Last Edit: May 30, 2016 10:56:17 GMT -5 by starviego
Another commonality that has intrigued me is the use of the "X" symbol by both groups.
The members of the NOI often dropped their 'slave names' and substituted an X to stand for their original, forgotten African names, for example: Malcolm X, Clarence 13X, Joseph X Polite, Charles 37X Morris, etc.
And of course we know that Charlie and his followers burned an X into their foreheads during the trial, to show that they were "Xing"(removing) themselves out of society.
Just another coincidence? Maybe, but I have to wonder....
And for what it's worth, there is also this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam On May 8, 2010, Farrakhan publicly announced his embrace of Dianetics and has actively encouraged Nation of Islam members to undergo auditing from the Church of Scientology. Since the announcement in 2010, the Nation Of Islam has been hosting its own Dianetics courses and its own graduation ceremonies. At the third such ceremony, which was held on Saviours' Day 2013, it was announced that nearly 8500 members of the organization had undergone Dianetics auditing. The organization announced it had graduated 1,055 auditors and had delivered 82,424 hours of auditing. The graduation ceremony was certified by the Church of Scientology, and the Nation of Islam members received certification. The ceremony was attended by Shane Woodruff, vice-president of the Church of Scientology's Celebrity Centre International. He stated that "The unfolding story of the Nation of Islam and Dianetics is bold, It is determined and it is absolutely committed to restoring freedom and wiping hell from the face of this planet."
Of course, we know that Charlie himself was deeply involved in Scientology for a while before his prison release in '67.
In Chapter 10 of the Watkins autobiography, My Life with Charles Manson , Manson is quoted as follows: "The heavy dudes, though, are the [Black] Muslims. ...they'll be the ones who bring the shit down. Yeah, it's gonna come down hard... a full-on war."
Curiously, just about the time Charlie and the gang are brought to trial, a wave of deadly black-on-white violence started in the form of the "Zebra" murders. The MO of the assaults was of one or more well-dressed blacks with short haircuts violently attacking whites in a seemingly random fashion.
Specifically, Zebra refers to a series of about 20 attacks that occurred in San Francisco from October 1973 to April 1974, leaving 15 killed and 8 wounded. It turned out the killers were a cult--the "Death Angels"--operating within the Nation of Islam(aka NOI, aka Black Muslims) mosque in San Francisco, involving about eight men. Though only four would go to prison. Their philosophy was every bit as bizarre as that of Helter Skelter. To get to heaven they had to kill a certain number of whites--women and children counting for more than men--before they could earn their 'wings.' They also seemed to have been led by two or more charismatic leaders who came out from the main NOI headquarters mosque in Chicago.
What is not well known, however, is that the spree began much earlier, in the form of the Oakland-Berkeley Slashers. Two black men had been randomly shooting and attacking whites with machetes in Oakland and Berkeley in about 15 separate attacks beginning September of 1970 and lasting for about a year, leaving many dead.
And police noticed other similar killings happening elsewhere.
From the book "Zebra: The True Account of 179 Days of Terror in San Francisco," by Clark Howard:
"...determined to calm the fear and put a stop to the killings, Joseph Alioto held a press conference to lay out what he believed he knew about Zebra. ... he laid out a huge collection of speculative intelligence, claiming that more than eighty killings across the state going back to 1971 could be linked to Zebra, and implying that those responsible for all the crimes might be tied to the Nation of Islam."
"This was October of 1973. The California attorney general’s office had already secretly compiled a list of forty-five of those killings which had taken place in the cities of San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley, Long Beach, Signal Hill, Santa Barbara, Palo Alto, Pacifica, San Diego, and Los Angeles; and in the counties of San Mateo, Santa Clara, Los Angeles, Contra Costa, Ventura, and Alameda. All the victims were white. All the know suspects in the killings had been associated with the Black Muslim movement. The killings were even then continuing throughout the state."
openjurist.org/710/f2d/868/national-alliance-v-united-states-national-alliance San Francisco Mayor Joseph L. Alioto's figure of 75 execution-style murders of White persons by Black killers in California since 1971 has been expanded to approximately 400 by adding figures for similar killings with an apparent racial motive in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, and Wisconsin. Police officials who added the unsolved killings in the six Midwestern states to those in California went as far back as 1969.
Some of the other killings thought to be Zebra killings:
there were at least seven people wounded or killed in the LA area in attacks that fit the Zebra profile, commencing in June of '71 and lasting for one year.
Eight blacks involved in two mass slayings of family members and others, from August to October of 1972, leaving at least nine victims dead.. They called themselves "De Mau Mau." The killers were not themselves muslim, but the group was founded by an ex-bodyguard to Malcolm X, Charles 37X Morris.
June 1973 to October 1974 Radical Black Muslims headquartered in Oklahoma City suspected in a series of black-on-white crimes, including at least six unsolved slayings, three shootings, two abductions and a dozen arson fires. One member arrested and convicted.
April 1974 Sacramento shotgun murders
Four young Black Muslims kill two and wound two in separate attacks.
nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-nation-of-islams-sacramento-murders.html ..both (perps)Lang and Pratt "eventually expressed deep remorse to parole commissioners, telling them the killings around the state were coordinated by Muslim elders." Pratt told the parole board: "It definitely was a racial crime..... This was constantly taught at the time. We had books on it, little pamphlets. This is what I see now as part of the brainwashing effect."
So how was it that Charlie was so eerily prescient, at least on that part of his Helter Skelter philosophy? Were the Zebra Killings really "Helter Skelter, The Sequel?" Was there a subterranean connection between the two groups, or was it all just coincidence?
Last Edit: Aug 29, 2017 20:16:58 GMT -5 by starviego
The investigation by the San Francisco PD was hindered, it is said, because they had no black undercovers that could have infiltrated the mosque of the NOI in that city. But this is somewhat disingenuous, as the Black Muslims had been an intensive target of FBI surveillance for many years.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO Amidst the urban unrest of July–August 1967, the FBI began "COINTELPRO–BLACK HATE", which focused on King and the SCLC as well as .... the Nation of Islam.
If ever there was a crime that warranted federal involvement, it would have been this interstate crime spree. But in this instance, the FBI was nowhere to be found. Though there is evidence that the Feds knew what they were dealing with:
violenceagainstwhites.wordpress.com/zebra/ NOI also murdered whites in Oklahoma City and New York City, and an old San Francisco copper who worked the original Zebra detail told me that at the time he saw a secret FBI memo that reported that a parallel campaign was underway on the East Coast.
Clearly, the Feds did not want to touch this. Why not?
www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/82420.pdf --pg37of313 On May 3, 1974 Alioto flew off to Washington to share his information on the Death Angels with (U.S.)Attorney General Saxbe ...Saxbe was very cool to Alioto. He treated the mayor as he would any other large city mayor but with little interest in the supposed nation-wide murder plot Alioto had discovered.
I believe the Zebras were given a pass by the Feds for the same reason that Charlie was given a pass by the LA Sheriff's Office all the way to the fall of 1969. And that reason was that they served a purpose--to further the goals of the CIA's Operation Chaos and the FBI's COINTELPRO. Put simply:
Post by maudes harold on May 31, 2016 18:27:20 GMT -5
I don't think Charlie was as rabid a racist as people like to believe. I do think he picked up some of his beliefs/feelings from family, experience, but especially from his prison 'upbringing'. It's a matter of survival in prison to separate by race, even if you don't personally house or espouse those feelings.
I think the influence of the Black Muslims is under-represented in the HS narrative, for many reasons. I've looked into the theories you are posting long ago and find a lot of credibility at the possibilities, but I don't think we'll ever have verifiable proof that would satisfy some.
I caught this comment on another forum. Can anybody confirm what this poster is saying?
youtube.com/watch?v=RX_0PYzLCBg&google_comment_id=z12xj1ejosyxdt4zs04ccxji4yymhpcwgbo Comments by JR RAY Charles Manson talked about these before they happened. During the trial he says "The Black Muslims are ahead of the Panthers. They have something boiling in the sewers that you wouldn't believe." and went on to say "The sword of Mohammad will swing down and cut the heads off of the whites..." It turns out that Manson was celled near one of the killers at T.I. in the early 60s. THEN in Manson's book Manson In His Own Words he says, "Though I wasn't Muslim, I watched what the Black Muslims spoke..." In 1969, one of the witnesses against Manson, Paul Crockett, is on tape telling the police in a Death Valley town of Shoshone about this man named CHarlie Manson who wont stop talking about Black Muslims gearing up to attack whites. Interesting sidebar to these killings.
Last Edit: Aug 7, 2016 14:15:35 GMT -5 by starviego
Some more tidbits about the early teachings of C.W. Fard Muhammed, the founder of the Nation of Islam(NOI) in the early '30s, and their similarity to the cult of Charles Manson:
www.metrotimes.com/detroit/mystery-man/Content?oid=2175649 Fard’s demise as the leader of the temple was brought upon him when, on Thanksgiving Day in 1932, one of his followers, Robert Harris, renamed Robert Karriem, committed a human sacrifice in order to bring himself closer to Allah. Karriem cited a quotation from a book entitled Secret Rituals of the Lost-Found Nation of Islam, authored by Wallace D. Fard Muhammad, which read, “The unbeliever must be stabbed through the heart.” This quote, as well as another stating, “Every son of Islam must gain a victory from a devil. Four victories and the son will attain his reward..”
So it appears that the Zebra killers were not just an unintended bizarre offshoot of the NOI, but rather what they were doing was one of the essential teachings, from the earliest days.
After the 1932 murder, Fard claimed to be a divine figure in police interviews:
Part 1, at the 21:00 mark: "....So, all of these things he(Manson) told me about being in jail, where the Black Muslims and this and that and the other that he has heard through other cells speaking of having a case of, uh, grenades. Another man talked about having a bazooka with three rounds, that he was going to make his count, Other people are talking about having Browning automatics, about all types of cellars with cases, of uh, of ammunition, piles of stores, and stores of all kind of things, Molotov cocktails. I've heard some of the weirdest stories. I thought it was all make believe to start with, but I'm of the opinion now that... if you could get jail records and such as then and when he was in jail who were the black men that were in jail with him at the time that all this was taking place, that it might pay to check into, see who they were and put tails on them or whatever is necessary because he says the black man is getting ready to blow the whole thing open, that he talks to them, that they know him, that they tell him these things...."
Was all this stuff just a result of something overheard at McNeil Island Penitentiary years before? The evidence seems very specific. Is it evidence that Charlie, in fact, may have had contact with the Black Muslims after his release from prison in the spring of '67? Or is Charlie just embellishing?
Detroit Free Press, 11-23-32 ...(police) arrested a negro(WD Fard) who styled himself "God of the Asiatic Nation." Meeting places which for many years had been though to have been no more than fraternal lodges were discovered Tuesday to be "temples" where susceptible individuals are incited to kill "devils," in the hope of attaining "heavenly forgiveness and reward." ... a condensation of statements from several confirmed members of the cult revealed Tuesday that the penalty for divulging any of the cult's secrets to outsiders, is death.
Here's a horrid thought:
Charlie was telling everyone that the sh** was coming down. He was telling people the Black Muslims would lead the race war by coming out of the ghettos and start killing whites. And that's exactly what happened, in the form of the ZEBRA killings discussed above. Did the NOI hear about Charlie's loose lips, and did they then reach out and inform Charlie of the penalty? And did they then suggest Charlie could make it up to them, and avoid the penalty, by kicking off the race war? Is that the real reason Charlie got very paranoid about the blacks in the summer of '69?
Last Edit: Aug 31, 2016 12:18:13 GMT -5 by starviego
There were a couple of behind-the-scenes events that occurred while Charlie was incarcerated at the McNeil Island Federal prison in Washington state from mid 1961 to mid 1966. They very well may have influenced his relationship with the black Muslims. The first was that the Bureau of Prisons(BOP) started adapting new tactics in their handling of hard-to-handle inmates.
realcostofprisons.org/materials/Resisting_Living_Death_Gomez.pdf ...the 1961 gathering titled “The Power to Change Behavior: A Symposium Presented by the U.S. Bureau of Prisons” as a key moment in the politicization of institutionalized brainwashing, behavior modification, and torture within the prison regime. The result was a national directive to experiment with these techniques, originally used against American POWs in Korea, on the black Muslim prison population. ... these techniques constituted a prison-based, Counter Intelligence Program (COINTELPRO)– like set of tactics that included surveillance, infiltration, and disruption. ... At the same time(early 60s), there were two formidable forces from the Left struggling against the decrepit conditions and racial violence inside prisons. Black Muslims and writ writers, also known as jailhouse lawyers, helped propel this shift. In April 1961, Schein(Edgar Schein, an associate professor of psychology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology) presented a paper entitled “Man against Man: Brainwashing” to the staff and senior administrators of the U.S. Bureau of Prisons at a meeting of U.S. wardens and social scientists. ....The chairman of the symposium... encouraged prison administrators to experiment with these new techniques on the black Muslim inmate populations on returning to their respective institutions...
Well Charlies liked to associate with the troublemakers, according to his records. And according to the BOP the two most troublesome groups were the black Muslims and the jailhouse lawyers--who liked to file a lot of lawsuits against the prisons and helped others file lawsuits. One of Charlie's close associates at McNeil was Lanier “Red” Ramer, who was transferred to the much tougher prison at Marion, Ill, in 1972 for his 'writ writing.' The point is that Charlie very well could have been caught up in this covert struggle between the prison administrators and the inmate agitators. It would have been natural for the guards to try to recruit Charlie as an informant on these groups. And if they succeeded in getting Charlie to snitch on the NOI in prison, they might have wanted him to do the same outside of prison.* Is that why the cops and his probation officer ignored Charlie's criminal activities? I've always suspected that the cops had an informant who was close to the family. Well maybe it was Charlie himself.
*Though real evidence of any contacts between Charlie and any black person is mostly non-existent after he was released from TI in '67. But it must also be remembered that Charlie didn't spend all of his time with the family--he reportedly kept up contact with his non-family associates during periodic visits by himself to Hollywood.
The other development was revealed by ex-NOI Malcolm X in this 1965 speech:
Malcolm X 1965 speech "I mentioned the conspiracy between the Muslims and the right wing in this country. I know for a fact there is a conspiracy between the Muslim and the Lincoln Rockwell nazi and also the Ku Klux Klan. There is a conspiracy. ... The Ku Klux Klan made a deal, or were trying to make a deal, with Elijah Muhammed(leader of the NOI at that time)...." [Malcolm then explains that the NOI were thereafter free to operate in the south without hindrance from the klan, and that the klan was free to operate without interference by the Black Muslims.]
Charlie was known for his chameleon-like ability to ingratiate himself with any person or group. Did this hidden peace treaty between the white and black segregationists filter down to the prison system, and did it pave the way for Charlie to get close to elements within the NOI?
Last Edit: Sept 2, 2016 11:25:32 GMT -5 by starviego
In his book, Vince Bugliosi asks Charlie at one point if he is part black, based on info from records relating to Manson's time at the National Training School for Boys, Washington, D.C. in 1951
Helter Skelter, Vince Bugliosi, pg555 "Father: unknown. He is alleged to have been a colored cook by the name of Scott, with whom the boy's mother had been promiscuous at the time of pregnancy."
Charlie denied it, but Bugliosi had asked the wrong question. In the US back in the '30s, 'colored' could mean anybody who had a darker skin tone, including people from Latin America, the middle east, Asia, etc.
IF Charlie was of mixed race, he may have used this fact to win the confidence of the NOI in the prisons. Certainly by their own rules Charlie might have qualified as a brother:
[So is it again just coincidence that Charlie deliberately went to look for shelter in caves out in the desert?]
scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5288&context=jclc 1965 report on 'Black Muslims and the Police,' pg3of9 In 1934, Wyzxewixard* S.J. Challouehliczilczese, an Ethiopian, attempted to exploit the movement to promote financial investments in his country. ... Elijah Muhammed: "We believe that intermarriage or race mixing should be prohibited." .... Malcolm X, on the black Muslim: "He's cleaning up the mess that white men have made."
*Wyzxewixard... Wise wizard... the Wizard?
Last Edit: Sept 5, 2016 11:56:17 GMT -5 by starviego
There are two references to hand grenades, about 15 months apart. Were there two cases of grenades, one obtained by the black Muslims, another by one of the groupies? Or was there only one, that was handed over for the Family's use? Who was the 'follower' Bugliosi is talking about? It's hard to imagine any of Charlie's followers having a regular job, not to mention one that was 60 miles from Spahn Ranch.
Interview with Paul Crockett on Oct 3, 1969 Part 1, at the 21:00 mark: "....So, all of these things he(Manson) told me about being in jail, where the Black Muslims and this and that and the other that he has heard through other cells speaking of having a case of, uh, grenades.....
Bugliosi, from about 1-25-71 (the day the jury came back with their verdict) pg557 Helter Skelter "From a source close to the Family, LASO had heard what they initially believed to be an incredible tale. While working at Camp Pendleton Marine Base, one of Manson's followers had stolen a case of hand grenades. These were to be smuggled into court on "Judgement Day" and used to free Manson. Again, we didn't know precisely what the Family meant by Judgement Day. But by this time that at least part of the story was true. A Family member had been working in the arms depot at Pendleton, and after he quit, a case of hand grenades was missing."
Last Edit: Sept 5, 2016 12:31:24 GMT -5 by starviego
Post by maudes harold on Sept 6, 2016 17:09:58 GMT -5
I don't think Charlie had the consistency or the credibility, street or jail, to be involved with the NOI. No doubt he came across all sorts of counter-culture ideas, none of which were really all that new, except to John Q. Public.
Scientology has been up in prisons for a long time and still is, as are conversions to Islam.
I found it curious tho, that Ramer testified at Squeaky's trial for attempting to assassinate the President. oo-ee-oo
Post by starviego on Sept 18, 2016 14:19:26 GMT -5
Some more references to connections with the Black Muslims:
www.exclusivefilmnet.com/islamrising08122001.htm In prison, where the majority at that time was Black, the "Black Muslim’s ruled the yard, and just like in the movies, the "White Aryans" would stick to their side of the yard, the "Browns" to their side and the "Black Muslims" to theirs, but one white man was allowed to visit with the Blacks. Manson's ranking as someone who would never snitch or otherwise betray, combined with his charming boyish personality permitted him a front row seat at "Muslim" yard conversations.
This citation is unsourced, so I don't how much credibility it should be given.
www.dailykos.com/story/2011/8/19/1007296/- Manson even talked about the NOI in court: "'The Black Muslims' they know the way, they’re ahead of us. Fifty years ahead. They are way ahead of the Black Panthers, dig. They know what’s happening. And I turn them on because I’m the only white guy in here that knows Mohammed.”
This is what the NOI believed. While the white 'Neanderthals' were living in caves, the blacks had created the world's first civilization. But it was a more esoteric, less publicized part of their beliefs. This suggests Charlie had much more than a passing knowledge of what the NOI was all about.
www.noi.org/noi-history/ Upon the Master’s departure in 1934(referring to the disappearance of Fard), the Honorable Elijah Muhammad labored tirelessly to bring life to his mentally and spiritually dead people until his return to the Master in 1975. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad identified the Master as being the answer to the one that the world had been expecting for the past 2,000 years under the names Messiah, the second coming of Jesus, the Christ, Jehovah, God, and the Son of Man.
If the biblical phrase "Son of Man" was of some importance in the Black Muslim beliefs, that would have been another link between the NOI and Charlie. "Son of Man" - "Man's Son" - "Manson," dig?
A plea for information: I remember coming across a reference to some obscure newspaper article that appeared right after the Tate murders, in which the author floated the theory that the murders were due to black militants. Does anybody know what I am talking about? I am going nuts trying to find that story.
Last Edit: Sept 18, 2016 15:04:11 GMT -5 by starviego
... Did the NOI.. then suggest Charlie could make it up to them, and avoid the penalty, by kicking off the race war?
IF the NOI ordered Charlie to kick off Armageddon or else, it brings up the possibility that Cielo Drive might not have been picked merely because it was a location known to Charlie. The real reason may have been to target Abigail Folger.
www.mansondirect.com/police-report-tate-1st.html In the past year, Abigail had been an active participant in Negro social work. She sponsored and attended rallies in the Watts area ...This contention is borne out by several civil rights placards found at the Cielo address.
Since the NOI mosque was located in the black ghetto of LA, it's possible her activities came to the attention of the Black Muslims. It must have been galling to them to have this rich white woman come to their neighborhood to show them how to live. Folger did volunteer work in the ghetto for about six months at most, stopping in late March, 1969, reportedly due to burnout or something like that. Maybe she was threatened to leave the neighborhood. Or did those planning Armageddon put her name on a hit list? (Of course this theory implies that the planners knew where Folger was living at the time of the LoCielo murders)
Post by starviego on Sept 25, 2016 21:45:08 GMT -5
In Sam Greenlee's 1969, James-Bond-in-blackface novel, The Spook Who Sat by the Door, a rogue black CIA agent trains black inner city gang members in guerilla tactics to lead a violent resistance against The Man.
thezebraproject.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-beltway-sniper-killings-equal-zebra.html In Spook, the hero, "Freeman" (get it?), the first black CIA agent, organizes black youth gangs in all of America's cities, whom he leads in a bloody, racial revolution. --The novel's protagonist and hero is a super-square yuppy, Ivy-league trained, black spy, who just happens to have also been the first black CIA Agent. His job as a spy was to monitor community-based radicals from a non-profit CIA storefront in an inner city black Chicago neighborhood. However, the whole time the CIA thought he was spying on community radicals, he was in fact actually assuming the role of a double agent training and helping to foment black revolutionary aims in the inner city.
Officially Sam Greenlee was an employee of the US govt during the tensest part of the Cold War, working for the U.S. Information Agency(USIA), part of the State Department. Between 1957 and 1965, Greenlee held assignments in Iraq, Pakistan, Indonesia, and Greece. It should be noted that CIA agents often used other government agencies as a cover, and the USIA was especially notorious for that. Is Greenlee intimating his real job as a CIA agent, and is he telling us about an actual CIA operation involved in recruiting black radical elements? Were the Zebra killers recruited and trained in this fashion? Certainly many researchers believe that violent black-led groups like the US Organization and the Symbionese Liberation Army were wholly creations of the covert operators.
The book was made into a movie released in 1973, available here:
It appears the film was repressed at the time, and was unavailable until recently. The director and actors involved were also apparently blackballed from the industry for many years.
Before LAPD chief Ed Davis broke the case to the press and public on Dec. 1, 1969, no one thought that the killers were "black militants," the group Charlie tried to blame. Except a few well-connected sources
xdell.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html Ed Butler, propagated an op-ed piece in August 1969 titled “Did Hate Kill Tate,” in which he blamed the deaths on the Black Panthers for the crimes. ...Butler had previously recorded Lee Oswald’s declaration for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, an organization in which he was the only member. ... Mae(Brussell) ... believed that in the months before the public had a face to go with the murders, speculation such as Butler’s tried to condition the public to accept the arrest and conviction of innocent blacks--just in case the authorities continued to protect Manson. Indeed, this might have been a reality had Susan Atkins not told all to Veronica Howard and Virginia Graham.
Other researchers believe, as do I, that Butler was some kind of intel agent. So it is curious that long before the LAPD or the Prosecutor could figure it out, the FBI/CIA were pushing the Helter Skelter theory.
Butler allegedly even used the term "Blue Meanies" in the article, so he probably had foreknowledge of the Beatles tie-in too.
the 2nd Tate Police investigation report: "On 9-8-69, an appointment was made by Kate Saxton, aka Baird, Pegrum, and Marilyn Kirk to talk with Sergeant Calkins at Parker Center ... Kate Baird is from England and had been an actress in that country for a number of years. She was married to a male Negro by the name of Harry Fredericks Patterson Baird, an American.... According to Kate Saxton, Harry Baird is a close friend of Mohammed Ali and ex-pro football player, Jim Brown. All three of the individuals are active in a black power movement which encompasses both England and the USA. ... She is convinced that the homicides were a means of the black power movement in this country to show their force and strength. ...Saxton states that her ex-husband knew about the murders "almost as soon as they happened." "
The interviewer doesn't state it, but it is implied that she got this theory from her husband. IF Baird got this theory from Ali, then we asked how did The Champ know this? Ali, of course, was part of the NOI from about 1961 to 1975. The obvious implication is that others high up in the NOI told him this. Which means that the people that counted in the NOI thought(or knew) Tate/LaBianca were the doings of "the black power movement." Thus the NOI was another group that seemed to have knowledge of Charlie's version of Helter Skelter.
The Sharon Tate Murders by Peter Maas From The Ladies’ Home Journal, April 1970 Edition "One of the first police theories was that black-power militants, out to terrorize the white community, were responsible for the killings."
Peter Maas was a very respected writer. So even the police, early on, thought that 'black-power militants' were behind HS? Wow, Bugliosi never mentioned that. And it was not one of the 'five' theories police were initially looking into.
Chief Ed Davis
At a time when the investigators claimed not to have a clue,
The CIA thought it was black militants
The NOI thought it was black militants
The LAPD thought it was black militants
Last Edit: Aug 29, 2017 20:29:05 GMT -5 by starviego
vickie: I wanted to use this opportunity to share with you guys how sad this date makes me! However, we can celebrate the wonderful lives each one shared. Their memories live on in our hearts and minds. May each victim rest on in perfect peace. Take care everyone.
Aug 8, 2020 21:10:37 GMT -5
swennync: 51 years ago today.
Aug 9, 2020 3:53:04 GMT -5
Christine: Welcome to all our newmbers. Hope to talk with you all soon.
Aug 23, 2020 13:05:13 GMT -5
coldwater: Somehow, I didn’t know this shoutbox scrolled back (!) and l now see a couple of messages. PaulHart: I sent you a private message last month; hope you got it. Maudes: For 3 wks I had the 210 to Pas to myself—8 min drive!
Aug 23, 2020 16:37:48 GMT -5
swennync: Coldwater- I grew up in Arcadia.......
Aug 24, 2020 4:37:51 GMT -5
Pappy: Swenny, I am challenging your “grew up” claim. Lived there, sure. Grew up, ehhh... 😁
Aug 24, 2020 11:06:16 GMT -5
coldwater: Aw, Swenny, my dear—that now makes perfect sense dude!
Aug 26, 2020 3:44:41 GMT -5
coldwater: paulhart — I have left you a recent, more detailed PM.
Aug 27, 2020 20:37:15 GMT -5
swennync: Pappy- They say the first 60 years of childhood are the hardest.
Sept 4, 2020 17:01:05 GMT -5
Pappy: Don’t I know it, and that is why I have refused to ever grow up....
Sept 5, 2020 10:29:26 GMT -5
starviego: RIP Irving Kanarek, who died Sept 2, 2020, at age 100.
Sept 5, 2020 11:49:02 GMT -5
vickie: Greetings to everyone. I hope our California friends are safe. Take care everyone.
Sept 6, 2020 20:30:39 GMT -5
ediesleftshoe30: Hi Vickie and all: I am from CA and it is absolutley apocolyptic looking outside.
Sept 13, 2020 12:29:39 GMT -5
coldwater: Yes, ediesleftshoe30, apt description. Eyes non-stop watering, amongst other maladies, but I am so upset about the kids who have perished—needlessly. As well, of course, all whom have died, that I’d gladly trade my momentary discomfort for, well, you know.
Sept 13, 2020 15:29:58 GMT -5
coldwater: The sun attempted to break thru the smoke and marine layer earlier; that was startling. I’d like to know how Our Counselor is faring? Maudes as well. Although I think they’re both out of the zones, many of us have family spread out.
Sept 13, 2020 15:42:51 GMT -5
Pappy: We saw the Sun yesterday for about 2 hours, and then smoked overwhelmed the valley again. The air is pretty bad, unhealthy for most people. The fire in our area continues to burn, over 200,00 acres gone.
Sept 14, 2020 8:34:55 GMT -5
valleygirl: Been seeing images on the television news about your fires, stay safe all you guys.
Sept 17, 2020 14:26:22 GMT -5
sophiesperspective: Happy release day to Cutting to the Truth!
Sept 22, 2020 7:39:36 GMT -5
coldwater: Thanks for checking in Counselor. I’m sorry about all of the dreadful damage to nature, forestry, and the animals. Please take care.
Sept 24, 2020 17:03:17 GMT -5
coldwater: Thanks also to Vickie and valleygirl for the kind thoughts to those of us in California 💜
Sept 26, 2020 0:45:38 GMT -5